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I don't give a fuck about self-driving cars.

I want free, public, A+ quality transport for everyone and cities that don't project mobility as "having a car"

@eletrotupi

There are many cases where in public transport the driver is not just a driver but a helping person.

Self-driving public transport simply destroys jobs and degrades the "driver".

Will the self-driving public transport help disabled and/or elderly people enter the vehicle and buy the ticket?

@musicmatze
I’ve absolutely seen bus drivers assist disabled individuals and elderly people get on and off the bus. Regularly while commuting on busses and while traveling in other cities.

@Billie @eletrotupi

@musicmatze
Here in Hamburg, they do (and have to do) because a lot of busses cannot be boarded with a wheelchair without assistance.

@eletrotupi

@musicmatze @Billie @eletrotupi I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, but I've been in many places in the world and most have a great many helpful drivers in the public transit system.

@eletrotupi while we’re on the topic, I’d like free, public, A+ quality food, healthcare, a house, and a gaming PC.

Besides, a fleet of taxis would be the ideal public transport if not for the fact that each one needs to have a human driver, which makes them horribly inefficient and forces us to fall back to mass transit, with all of its shortcomings and annoyances. Guess what will happen if we manage to eliminate the whole driver issue? Autonomous taxis as cheap as buses. Yes please.

@eletrotupi damn, this sooo much. i couldn't be less excited about self-driving cars. i want more bus routes.

@eletrotupi While I DO care about them i would still rather see more public transport. self-driving cars would probably still be useful in situations where you need a taxi or in rural towns

@eletrotupi It goes deeper than that, I find. The car's been an essential part of the American dream for nearly the entire 20th century and all so far of the 21st. Due to the unrivalled dominance of American culture and economics globally, the car has come to be more than merely a means of transportation. It's "the" mode of transport, a symbol of status. I think the reason Americans like their cars so much is because of the independence it grants them; to go "anywhere".

@KMemzy @eletrotupi Kind of? I can see how the 'American Dream' (including the car) is seen as such from a non-American context, but...

... we really don't have any other option than to *have cars* because so many of our towns and cities just... don't have reliable public transportation options, so a lot of us don't actually see them as "part of the dream." They're a necessity in response to living in a location that refuses to create reliable public transportation.

Like, the bus schedules for where I grew up used to be massively inconsistent and inconvenient (a bus travels a route once an hour or more). I think some routes are now at once every half hour or 45 minutes, but most are still on the every-hour schedule. (Between 6a-8:30p.)

That's just not feasible for appointments or jobs; it's not even good for shopping (think of frozen items). So people will opt to get a car for whoever needs it.

That kind of necessity (which it is) is often misread outside the US, and I get that. (But I've also seen first-hand how cities like Torino refuse to deal with public transport because of Fiat.)

@whatanerd @eletrotupi I know in suburban areas you need a car, I've lived in one. I've also lived in NYC, there were Citi bikes and the Subway to get around, or you could just walk. Perhaps I projected that standard to the entire US as opposed to just the tri-state area.

@KMemzy @eletrotupi Possibly! I just know that the 'car as a status symbol' or 'as the American Dream' doesn't really apply to whole chunks of the Midwest (which is where I'm from).

Like, I know I saw it a lot when I lived in southern California (and the wealthier parts of San Diego/LA seem almost ecstatic to be full of cars and not have public transport to the detriment of the many), but I also know that places in the Midwest very intentionally create inconvenient scheduling and routes to propagate the idea that "public transportation is bad" (because they *want* it to be bad in order to support different industries -- Almost in that "You asked for public transportation? This is what you wanted? Well, this is garbage" sort of way.)

(Side note: Apologies if I came across as bristly. That wasn't my intent! :heart_ace: )

@eletrotupi give me trolleys, streetcars, and walkable streets again

@eletrotupi I want train tickets to get less expensive so that none of me and my boyfriend would have to think about getting a driver's license for seeing each other regularly (we're living >500km apart) :blobcatverysad:

@fluff A car cost 1000 € a year without even driving a single kilometer. @eletrotupi

@bastian @eletrotupi yeah but if you wanna drive every weekend >500km it's still cheaper than train

@fluff I am not sure. IIRC, the ADAC recommends to calculate 0,3 € per km with a small or medium sized car, 0,3 € * 500 = 150 €.
Don't be the fool I was as I still had a car and saw my savings vanishing.
@eletrotupi

@eletrotupi
Also, I'd ask really nicely that "electric car" should not be translated as "panopticum on wheels", and nor should " public transport".

@eletrotupi A+ quality (free) public transport is even more important outside the cities. While having car in the city is more and more problem for owners (parking places, traffic jam, smog, etc...), living far away from city and not having car is often equal to communication exclusion.

@eletrotupi Sometimes, as shouted in France by the Gilets Jaunes, public transport alone cannot suffice, because it would deny many the chance to live outside cities.

@tenib I'm not saying to abolish car, therefore you either didn't read my toot or you ignored what I actually said

@eletrotupi I agreed and added something I don't see discussed very often.

@tenib Oh, I read differently. Most of times, whenever someone say: "We should try B instead of A because it's better for N reasons", people randomly appears and say things like "but B is bad for X reason and therefore we shouldn't try B".

@eletrotupi
Yep, typical False Dilemma fallacy if not simply bad faith from many (in these cases) deniers.

PS: Well you didn't read the words 'alone' and 'suffice', but it's fine, peace ;)

@eletrotupi I want cities and towns that don’t require a car, but facilitate walking or riding, with public transport for those with mobility issues or bad weather!

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